I may have skimmed over Disruption though...
Steadfast
p54 Steadfast:
[paraphrasing] ...If a unit has more ranks than it's enemy, it takes its Break test on it's unmodified Leadership.
You can use your nearby General's leadership for this roll too. I really feel this rule has changed Warhammer quite a bit from 7th Edition, 8th is now leaning heavily in the direction of the large infantry blocks.
Oh gawd, all that unpainted silver hurts mine eyes
...so does the 7 ranks of Skeletons right in the middle there.
One example is large blocks of Skaven Slave units...
...which I recently had the pleasure of losing to.
You're elite troop block is facing off against a Skaven Slave unit which is 50 strong. Is there any way to cancel Steadfast? Say, charging in from the side to aid your Combat Resolution result and cancel their ranks?
Sure you can do that, but as long as the Skaven Slave unit has more ranks, they're rolling on their Steadfast unmodified Leadership.
So no, nothing you can do as far as I know. I found out the hard way against a Skaven player who kept a unit back which contained his BSB and General, giving his slave blocks high re-roll-able leadership rolls making them pretty much unbreakable.
As long as you're actually winning the combat with that elite block of troops you brought you're doing fine. It's the Skaven player (in this example) who has to make the leadership rolls, but it makes the Slaves an absolute porridge/quick sand unit. Your elite unit might well be stuck there for 5 or even 6 turns, seriously. So keep a watchful eye for the hammer unit - the slaves are very likely the anvil.
Disruption
p52 Disruption
[paraphrasing] ...a unit doesn't receive rank bonuses when calculating Combat Resolution when disrupted. A unit is disrupted when attacked in flank or rear, and the attacking unit has at least 2 ranks of 5 or more models.
Also of note is the attacking units ranks are counted at the end of combat when calculating CR. If the attacking unit is 2 ranks of 5, charges, loses a single model during combat then they no longer have enough to cause disruption that turn (CR is calculated at the end of combat).
So Disruption is great an all (in fact it's pretty much the exact flanking rules from 7th ed except they've added a larger unit size and ranks requirement) but it's not going to help against a large steadfast block.
5x8 ranked units FTW?
I only recently discovered that you can use the general's LD for steadfast tests. That makes the Hammerers with Lord even better. Stubborn on LD10 now. :D
ReplyDeletePerhaps using YATIMI8ED in the title wasn't so far off the mark then!
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't have known but for my battle against the Skaven - the rule book mentioned unmodified leadership and I argued that meant the units unmodified leadership. Alas, the rulebook mentions using the Generals Ld in the next paragraph!
Actually Hammerers are an odd one as they already have Stubborn. You'd probably want to have them as a Horde which means less ranks & therefore no Steadfast - but what do they care, they have Stubborn.
ReplyDeleteCan you use the General's Ld for stubborn tests? I think so, as long as he's in the unit.
Yes indeed, steadfast is great. I'm thinking about 50 rabble for my chaos dwarves. Thing is, try that with 50 zombies. Okay, they never break anyway, but with the casualties they would sustain and crumble, a block of 50 could melt in 2-3 turns, whereas the skaven slaves could last all game. Seems weird eh?
ReplyDeletemr.sat: that is odd.
ReplyDeleteI hear house rules for Irish tournaments are limiting unit sizes to 40 if the individual models are worth more than 5 or 6 points, but unlimited if less.
I'm not sure I'd ever field a unit larger than that anyway, but kinda seems like they're still living in 7th ed to me.
RedCraig - Judging by the rules, yes you can use the general's LD. The stubborn rules say "Always count as being Steadfast" (see the Steadfast rules). Which state that a unit can use the general's LD from 'Inspiring Presence' in he is in range.
ReplyDeleteNow, my knowledge of the new rules are very basic, but I think I am correct in this.
I have heard of many tournament comp rules limiting the numbers per unit. I know that the Sheffield Slaughter had a cap of 40 models per unit.